of breaking the law
if he's working to save the country.
Hours after posting that message, Trump's
former vice president
Mike pence
shared a link to an article
he wrote in 2010
about the importance
of adhering to the Constitution.
Democratic Senator
Adam Schiff said, quote,
spoken like a true dictator.
And Democratic Congressman
Richard Torres said in part,
Trump seems to believe he can do
whatever he wishes in the name
of saving the country.
Horace adds
the US
Constitution trumps
the policy preferences
of President Trump.
Joining us now is Margaret Talev,
senior contributor
for Axios and director
of the Institute for democracy,
Journalism and Citizenship
at Syracuse University.
Margaret,
I want to get your reaction
to Trump's post.
What do you make of this?
Well, it's certainly designed
to get everyone's attention and create
quite a reaction.
And it's doing that so far.
He's taking steps like,
pinning it
or putting it out there to begin with
is it's obviously
he wants people talking about this.
So the question is
what is he trying to tell us
as you foreshadowing,
a series of actions
that will flout the law
that judges will push back on
and that he'll say, I'm doing it anyway
because it's for the country.
or is it is the purpose of it
to get the reaction,
or is the purpose of it
somewhere in between?
And the truth is, at this point
we don't know yet,
but we do know that, the
the very essence of the quote, it's
been attributed to Napoleon. Yes.
The former
French emperor
who was then exiled after
Waterloo and who,
took hold of leadership with a coup.
So it is a provocative quote.
It's designed to be provocative.
I think the question or the concern,
both
from lawmakers
and also from the legal community is,
is this more than just a provocation?
It is this him, broadcasting,
his intentions
as he continues to push boundaries?
Well, speaking
as someone who's not known
to be provocative,
former Vice President
Mike pence wrote
and linked to this article
where he says, quote,
without proper adherence
to the rule contemplated
in the Constitution for the presidency,
the checks and balances
in the constitutional plan
become weakened.
What's he getting out here?
There has been,
a debate or provocative discussion,
again, inside
sort of Trump world
about the idea of whether we're
in a post constitutional era,
whether the Constitution,
that that founded the United States,
continues to be relevant
or should continue.
it's irrelevant.
But of course, you know,
to your point, you're right.
It's a nation of laws.
there's a rule of law,
and they're,
three separate branches of government.
And the Supreme Court,
ultimately decides whether actions fall
within the law,
that those are the rules of the country.
And if there weren't those rules,
there would be,
you know, lawlessness and violence and,
everything be a jump ball.
So, I think, you know, there again,
I think it looks to me
like all these various parties
where they're whether they're Republican,
whether they've been aligned
with Trump in the past or not,
are trying to figure out, is this,
again, meant to have a chilling effect?
or get everyone's attention
and that's it?
Or is this foreshadowing of steps
to come?
And at this point,
because we're only a few weeks
into the new administration,
all you have to go on
are the early actions
of the administration.
But certainly,
with Doge,
with some of these mass firings,
with many moves
that are already headed to the courts,
the president has shown a willingness,
certainly to push the boundaries of,
what has ever been, allowable behavior
by an executive
in the modern United States.
Now, Trump is also responding to critics
who say it's Elon Musk
who is actually, the one in charge.
let's take a listen
to what he said in a joint interview
with Musk on Fox.
Actually,
Elon called me and said,
you know,
they're trying to drive us apart.
I said, absolutely, you know, they said,
we have breaking news.
Donald Trump has ceded
control of the presidency to Elon Musk.
President Musk
will be attending
a cabinet meeting tonight at 8:00.
And I say it's just so obvious
there's so bad at it.
I used to think they were good at it.
They're actually bad at it
because if
they were good at it,
I'd never be president.
What do you think is going on,
with that interview
and behind the scenes?
I mean, if
if it were a reality show,
it would certainly be a scripted moment.
It seems like, again, a moment
that is meant to entertain,
to provoke people, to talk about it.
But the truth is, Elon Musk
isn't doing anything that President Trump
hasn't empowered him to do.
If President Trump
didn't want him doing
the things he's doing,
he wouldn't be doing them anymore.
So I think for a lot
of the members of Congress,
there was all of this
debate early on about,
how how much scrutiny should cabinet
nominees get? Well, it
if you can
install someone
outside of the nomination process who,
doesn't have to answer
to anyone in the Senate
and is empowered
uniquely by the president.
And once the court says they can't be,
then why does it matter
who the cabinet nominees are?
So I think, again,
you are really seeing something
very different here play out.
And it is meant to provoke.
It is meant to get,
you know, people who are concerned
about boundaries in the system
all whipped up and fired up.
It is
they are playing it
as they have intended it.
And that's what's going on right now.
Margaret Talev, thank you.
More when we come back.
